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  • As much as I love Frozen, there is one thing about it that just bothers me, and that is its portrayal of wolves. In both Frozen and Olaf's Frozen Adventure, European gray wolves (Canis lupus lupus) are shown as vicious beasts that aggressively hunt down the protagonists. Simply put, real wolves do not act like this. 

    For the most part, only rabid wolves would chase a horse-drawn (or in this case, a reindeer-drawn) sleigh full of people like the ones in the first movie do. Wolves are scared of humans and wolf attacks on humans are rare; many attacks are typically (but not always) the result of either defensive reasons, rabies, or habituation - not normal circumstances. It should be mentioned that some historically recorded "wolf attacks" (including the infamous Beast of Gevaudan attacks) have been speculated or proven to be the work of not wolves but of wolfdogs, hybrids that have the power of the wolf and the fearlessness of the domestic dog (Canis familiaris). Now then, let me make this clear: I am NOT saying that wolves are cuddly, harmless puppies that would never ever dream of attacking a human; that is just nonsense. Wolves are wild, predatory animals. They can pose a threat to humans and there have been attacks on humans - some fatal - by healthy wild wolves (especially in Eurasia, but also in North America). Some of these attacks have been predatory in nature. The point I'm trying to make here is that wolves are no more dangerous than any other wild animal and that the media should stop depicting them as if they are.

    And seriously, wolves hunting down a snowman like they do in the holiday short? Wolves won't waste precious energy hunting a non-nutritious snowman! They would've smelled that Olaf is snow & not prey! Defense better explains their attack, but the characters in the film clearly say that they were hungry. Maybe they just wanted Olaf's fruitcake, as he suspected?

    In Norway (the setting of Frozen), European gray wolves are critically endangered, yet the government is constantly trying to cull the population because it basically believes the anti-wolf myths. Wolves already have enough of a bad image, they already have enough enemies against their very existence, and they do not need more of either as the result of Frozen. I will not forget the one time I was in line at a horse show and a little girl was looking at my pins on my backpack; she liked the Frozen ones, but when she saw the "save the wolves" ones I overheard her say to her mother that she hated wolves. Yes, you read that corrrectly: hated. That someone so young has already harbored a hatred for an animal is so sad, and unfortunately I have no doubt that Frozen is partly to blame for this.

    So what do you think: is Frozen demonizing wolves too much? I believe it is, and I really hope that Frozen 2 does not have a wolf attack scene.

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    • Lol, this reminds me of people defending the hyenas in The Lion King. In both cases, I agree.

      As for Frozen, the scene is WAY too similar to the Beauty and The Beast (the animated movie, not the crap live action one) wolves scene, it's just a simple way to raise stakes in a life threatening way. It's also a chance to have a sad death or an epic take down scene to show how totally cool and strong their characters are. You would probably like Balto, though.

      As for the little girl, I think you're assuming too much. "Hated" is probably synonymous to "scared of" or "don't understand", not "I want to see them all killed by the Government", and when she grows up she'll have more access to the necessary education to learn about them and form an informed and logical opinion, instead of an intimidated emotion based one. Maybe she should watch Balto, too? :P XD

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    • Fangirl111 wrote:
      Lol, this reminds me of people defending the hyenas in The Lion King. In both cases, I agree.

      As for Frozen, the scene is WAY too similar to the Beauty and The Beast (the animated movie, not the crap live action one) wolves scene, it's just a simple way to raise stakes in a life threatening way. It's also a chance to have a sad death or an epic take down scene to show how totally cool and strong their characters are. You would probably like Balto, though.

      As for the little girl, I think you're assuming too much. "Hated" is probably synonymous to "scared of" or "don't understand", not "I want to see them all killed by the Government", and when she grows up she'll have more access to the necessary education to learn about them and form an informed and logical opinion, instead of an intimidated emotion based one. Maybe she should watch Balto, too? :P XD

      Thank you, I'm glad to know that I am not the only one who thinks this.

      Now that I think about it, you are right: the Frozen wolf attack scene is extremely similar to the wolf attack scene in Beauty in the Beast. I figured that those were the reasons why such scenes existed, but I just wish that moviemakers would take the real world consequences of how they represent animals into consideration; there are many other ways to accomplish those goals without demonizing an animal species.

      Hopefully the little girl will change her attitude towards wolves as she grows up and learns more about them and the environment. But there are even adults today who have the "kill all wolves" mentality, and the anti-wolf movement is pretty strong in the state where I live, so it is also possible that she will grow up to hate them. That said, I hope that you are right.

      I love Balto!

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    • Yes, well, they are my second favourite animal, sooo :P

      I guess, it's just easier for them. People will be scared of animals that look vicious and wolves match the description to most.

      Possibly, but the factors at play are too vast and great for me to make a reasonable and fair assessment.

      Yep, me too XD Grew up with it and the sequel but never saw the third movie, or at least not as of yet.

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    • Fangirl111
      Fangirl111 removed this reply because:
      Request, it has nothing to do with the topic of this Thread and an agreement was reached.
      14:21, December 18, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Cool! Wolves are my favorite animal!

      That is true, which is sad. They could have been more creative and look into other possible scary pursuers, but no, they always have to choose the misunderstood wolf.

      That is fair enough, and ultimately I cannot say what the girl's future opinion on wolves will be. I just hope that it is more pro-wolf and that she does not join the anti-wolf movement when she is older.

      All of the Balto movies are good, though the second Balto is my favorite, perhaps because of its greater wolf theme than the other two movies. I've seen the third Balto once, it is pretty cute and worth seeing if you like the series.

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    • Cool.

      Yeah, that's true. Maybe a bear? Again, this reminds me of hyenas in The Lion King :d

      As do I.

      Agreed, I enjoyed the second movie most as well. I will most likely watch the third movie eventually. What do you think of Alpha and Omega, which does contain real-world matters about wolves?

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    • I was thinking that the scene should have been a pursue by robbers, since there are robbers in the original The Snow Queen. But if the pursuer had to be a wild animal, then a bear could have worked too.

      Funny story, I have a book about hyenas and it actually discusses the portrayal of hyenas in The Lion King, including the responses of some hyena biologists to the movie in regards to its negative depiction of hyenas. Hmm, if such a thread about this topic does not exist on the Disney Wiki, then I might have to post one there.

      Have fun watching the third Balto movie when you get around to it. I thought that Alpha and Omega was cute, and it was nice to see a kids movie depicting wolves in a positive light for once; my only irk about it is that is promotes the "alpha wolf" myth.

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    • I don't actually know the original The Snow Queen, but I think the more connections made to it the better of an adaption tbh (but that's just me and the topic of adaptions is very vast and complicated, too, I guess I'm just under the mere-exposure effect most of the time :d), so that would be cool to see then. Agreed, if it has to be an animal.

      I haven't seen many Threads about it on the Disney Wiki or The Lion King Wiki, and I haven't been on The Lion Guard Wiki enough to know if there are any there, but there's a LOT of discussion about it on DeviantArt. People do seem to be happy with Jasiri, though.

      Thanks! Yeah, I've heard about it being a myth, but people reallllly enjoy the idea of natural superiority over others, especially with males, so I don't think many people would be willing to accept that it's just a myth.

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    • I actually haven't read the original The Snow Queen either, but I did see a more direct movie adaptation of it.

      Hmm, seems like I will have to post a thread about it someday. While I haven't seen The Lion Guard, I have heard about Jasari and her clan, and I have also heard that there is an episode with good aardwolves (which are a species of hyena), so it makes me happy to see that Disney is finally depicting (at least some) hyenas in a positive light in The Lion King universe.

      You are right, and cause of that the myth will not die easily. Which is unfortunate, because it can have a real impact on how people train their dogs (since dogs are descended from wolves, or at least share a common ancestor), and the dogs suffer because of it.

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    • The one from 2012? I haven't seen that one, though I have seen people call it a "rip off of Frozen" despite it having been made first -~-

      Probably. Same, I've seen a few clips and a LOT of shipping fan art of her and Kion. I haven't seen any clips with the Aardwolves, I'm glad it's good, though!

      Yes, agreed. My family has two guard dogs from the same litter, they're part Husky, part German Shepard and part Labrador. Our girl is much more aggressive than our boy and also much more vocal, she LOVES to howl and he almost never does. I remember that one time this Baby Boomer came up and said, "Why is she being so loud?! She's the girl! She's not supposed to be the Alpha!" and I was honestly so disappointed in him T~T He was very sexist regularly, though, but regardless, don't try to carry it over to my dogs -.-

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    • Yeah, that one. Wait, do people really think that and not know that Frozen was inspired by The Snow Queen?

      Then I shall post a thread about the representation of hyenas in The Lion King universe (though that will be after the holidays) - it will be interesting to see how that turns out. From what I've read, it seems like the episode with the aardwolves goes something like this: the Lion Guard chases off a clan of aardwolves from the Pridelands since they look like "typical" hyenas (which I'm guessing are supposed to be spotted hyenas, but they have gray fur like striped hyenas), and then termites overpopulate, so the Lion Guard has to go bring the aardwolves back.

      Your family's dogs must be beautiful - I have seen a few Husky/GSD mixes before and they are gorgeous. My gosh, that man was being both sexist and unscientific about dogs. Someone should tell him about spotted hyenas and elephants, for both species are generally female-dominant. ;)

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    • Yep, some people. This is one review, but don't worry, lots of people defend it, such as here.

      Cool. Seems kinda cute XD I'm not too fond of TLG, it differs too much from TLK imo, such as Kion being WAY too overpowered fighting Hyenas, especially when you compare it to Simba's encounters with the Hyenas as a cub :T

      Yes, they are! Our boy looks more like a Husky with the Lab colours instead of black, but our girl looks almost exactly like a German Shepard. They both have brown eyes, though, not blue, but that would have looked cool :d They're very good guard dogs, but we're thinking of having them officially certified as service dogs. We have CPTSD among other psychological and physical disabilities, and we often call them our "comfort puppies" c: Yes, agreed, but at his age there isn't much luck trying to change his opinions, Baby Boomers are very stubborn in my experiences and set in their ways. Regardless, he was still objectively and factually wrong. People like him also hate hearing about how Clownfish are, and any other fish able to change their gender/sex.

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    • Interesting.

      It seems like the episode has an ecological message about the importance of predators (in this case, insectivores), so I'll give it credit for that. But like I said earlier, I have not seen The Lion Guard, so I can't say much else about it (I only found out about the aardwolf episode because I grew curious on how aardwolves would be treated in the Pridelands, since they are hyenas with a different name, and looked that up, thus finding information about the episode). But yeah, that does sound like an overexaggeration of a lion cub's strengh against a clan of (supposedly) spotted hyenas.

      Those dogs sound like they are absolutely gorgeous - and cute! Good luck training them to be service dogs, and I am so sorry that you and your family suffer from those conditions. Oh gosh, that reminds me of when one of my co-workers at the aquarium I volunteer at said that they dealt with someone who vowed to never come back because the aquarium had sequentially hermaphrodite fish species and - *gasp* - educated guests about them (oh the horror, because an aquarium's job is totally not to educate guests about the animals under its care *major sarcasm*).

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    • Yeah, I guess so, it's interesting see a more in-depth look at the relationships the different animals have with the Lions and Hyenas. Yeah, it's an inconsistency that I can't easily overlook, unfortunately T~T

      Thanks ^^ It's fine, life is very stressed right now, admittedly, mostly due to a LOT legal stuff we're pursuing, like a ton of stolen property T^T Lol, that's pretty hilarious XD

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    • Fangirl111
      Fangirl111 removed this reply because:
      Not about wolves and request/agreement.
      01:18, December 20, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • The further exploration of the relationships between the species in the Pridelands and the Outlands is pretty cool, but from what you say, it seems like the show could do it in a way that better reflects the canon of the movies.

      I'm sorry that you have to go through all that, and I hope that it is completely resolved soon.

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    • Yeah, agreed.

      Yeah, me too T^T Thank you.

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    • So out of curiosity, I was looking up The Lion Guard a little more and noticed that black-backed jackals are depicted negatively in the show. I think that this is very unfortunate, as jackals are an important part of the ecosystem, and like their larger cousins they seem to also be usually depicted as villains in fiction. Just curious, what do you think?

      You're welcome.

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    • I think I've seen some clips of that, like a song about tricking people (well, animals, of course) by looking cute? XD I thought that one of them was a good guy who didn't like what they were doing, though?

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    • I saw the clip of Jackal Style  - I'm not going to lie, it is pretty catchy for a song that encourages bad behavior. I knew that one of the pups had reservations about the behavior, but I don't think that he was offically declared a good jackal in that episode. But maybe Disney did make him officially good in a later episode, I will have to look that up. That would be nice if there was at least one good jackal in the show. Thanks for the info.

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    • Lol XD It's nowhere near the level of the original TLK songs, imo :d Ah, I see. Np ^^

      What do you think of the smoke wolves scene in Pocahontas? (Here's a link to the clip if you don't know it/haven't seen it, since it is very short and not too memorable.) I don't like it tbh, it's too negative, but it's also disrespectfully inaccurate >:T The animation is amazing, though ^^ But the scene where Pocahontas sings, "have you ever heard the wolf cry to blue corn moon?" is nice!

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    • Yeah, there is no arguing about that - but then, what is?

      I pretty much agree with your analysis of the "wolf smoke scene" in Pocahontas. I love that scene and line from Colors of the Wind about the wolf crying at the blue corn moon.

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    • Only the other Disney classic's songs :P Besides, TLG songs sound more like pop music, which means it will probably become dated some day :/

      Agreed, I like the whole song, but that part is beautiful ^^

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    • Obviously, and agreed.

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    • What do you think of the wolves in the animated Jungle Book? And the live action/CGI version too, but I like the animated version better tbch.

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    • I like how the wolves in both versions of The Jungle Book are shown since since they are positive, though I like their depiction in the live action / CGI version a lot more than in the animated version because they get more screentime and their story is much more developed. My only complaint would be how the wolves in the movies (especially the live action / CGI version) look nothing like real Indian wolves, which are much smaller, leaner, and have shorter fur than Holarctic gray wolves.

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    • Me too, though I like the animated version better, I really liked the relationship with the mother and father wolves, but I'm generally more fond of animation anyway :d As a kid I was like, "wish I was Mowgli" XD XD The animated one seemed much more wholesome to me, if that makes sense, I don't remember if the father was even in the live action/CGI version. To me the only super memorable part about the wolves was when the tiger threw one off a cliff Q_______Q ;n; Oh, yeah, I guess that was overlooked, I didn't think of that before but yeah, you're right.

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    • Yeah, that makes sense. I generally prefer animation too, though I have also become increasing interested in realistic CGI movies about animals. It is such a shame that wolf species were overlooked, cause Indian wolves are endangered and Disney could have used this chance to raise awareness about their existence, but they didn't. And speaking of the accuracy of Indian biodiversity represented in the movie: jerboas are not found in India (though there are gerbils in India, and I'm guessing that Disney confused the two rodents together as they are similar).

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    • Okay, good >u< Oh, really? I have a hard time appreciating CGI, which is actually one of the biggest reasons that I didn't like Frozen for the longest time. It gives me slight uncanny valley feelings, they're faces look a bit squished, especially the cheeks to chin. Rapunzel and the Disney Fairies don't look too bad, but in Frozen the eyes are HUGE and the forehead is tiny. That's another thing, tiny foreheads, they bother me in just about every art style I've seen, I'm not really sure why QnQ I couldn't see the whole "Elsa is soooo pretty/hot/sexy!!" for a LONG time, it's only been this year that I've been able to see the beauty in this movie and actually enjoy the designs. Anna always looked more beautiful to me because her face was longer and more realistic. On the other hand, the animated/2D versions of Elsa and Anna are stunning! I liked the CGI in Disney's Dinosaur, and the live action/CGI TLK looks pretty good so far :d

      Agreed, though with the animated version were they endangered back then, too? Agreed, though I'm pretty sure I've seen that lil fella in TLG.

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    • I understand - while I never hated it, it took me a while to get used to seeing the CGI animation in (non-Pixar) Disney animated movies. I always liked how they appear in the CGI animation, but I agree that Elsa and Anna look very pretty in the traditional animation style too.

      Indian wolves were protected as a Schedule 1 (endangered) species under the Indian Wildlife Protection Act in 1972, and the animated version was released just a few years prior, so probably.

      Jerboas do live in northern Africa, so that one makes a little more sense (though once again gerbils, not jerboas, live in the African savanna).

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    • Oooh, I definitely did >n< XD I'm still getting used to it ;n; DreamWorks was always great imo, though :d Yeah, Idk they look fine as kids and the men aren't so bad, y'know except for the foreheads 8'I

      Oh wow o.o

      Oh, well that's good, then.

      What do you think of the wolf in The Sword in the Stone? It's so sad, imo, it's all withered away ;n; Like, it's just hungry! :'C

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    • That's OK - everyone has different opinions on animation styles and there is nothing wrong with that.

      In my opinion, the depiction of the wolf in the Sword and the Stone was quite stereotypical, with the wolf as a man-eater and all. But yeah, that poor wolf was just hungry!

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    • Thank you.

      Agreed, and yeah, I just want to give it, like, a whole deer! QnQ

      Have you ever seen Princess Mononoke? (Pretty sure it's Disney,) If so, what do you think of the wolves? It's not realistic, of course, but I think I remember it being more about spiritual themes. I remember a huge white wolf, I think it was a God of some sort, but it spoke and had, like, a perpetual snarl o.o (I honestly don't remember much of that movie, I only really remember this one scene where the boy was fighting this boar with worms and this other one where the boy got sick and the girl was feeding him.)

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    • You're welcome.

      Same here.

      I have never seen Princess Mononoke, so I can't say anything about it.

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    • Oh wow, well it's an anime XD I think it was about a girl raised by wolves, but I don't remember it much tbch :d

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    • Cool, I will have to look into it sometime!

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    • Mhm! :) This isn't Disney, although technically it was once Marvel and Marvel is Disney so Ig it could count, but have you ever read ElfQuest? You would probably like the Wolfriders and their wolf friends, I would suggest seeing this page or this list for a first look if you haven't.

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    • A FANDOM user
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